Interview, February 2004
karlsen was interested in how matt was feeling after the year's first uk tour, so he went and talked to him, and then he wrote down what matt said. that's how this kind of thing works.
Did you enjoy the tour?
Yes... we've just got back from the so-called 'Intimate Duo' tour, which sounds like a not-very-effective superhero pair. And it was great. I'm still slightly dazed because I thought it was going to be much more intimate than it was, and it turned out to be about as big a tour as we've ever done. It was exciting.
Which was your favourite venue?
All this tour was designed to be at unusual places, so we played some theatres and some churches and some concert halls. There was a concert hall that was particularly like an ampitheatre, which felt like a proper concert - my music teacher would have been proud - and then there was a Music Hall in Leeds which was fantastic, and looked a lot like the Muppet Show. You could see all the muppets out there in the red seats while you were performing. That was very amusing. But maybe the most splendid was the church in London [St James', Piccadilly]. It was a very beautiful place, and they'd never had a gig there before, so that had a real sense of occasion and atmosphere.
Do you think it was a different experience for the audience to see you in these places?
I've always thought that if an audience member walks into a place that they've never been in before, or been in to listen to music before, they are open-minded. That was the feeling we wanted, that people weren't expecting a 'rock gig', cos it wasn't a rock gig - they wouldn't know what to expect. That helped to make it something a bit different.
What did you want to achieve musically?
The challenge was to do something with two of us that wasn't just a rubbish version of the full band, but actually taking the opportunity to show an aspect of the songs that you wouldn't see any other way. That was quite hard to figure out how to do, but luckily Ben [Hales] is able to play all instruments, and that made a lot of difference. We were able to have a bit of variety.
It became clear quite quickly that it was a really effective way of playing the songs. Some of them, I think, might even be best of all played like this, which is something to bear in mind when it comes to the full-band thing.
Did you learn anything about the songs?
You always learn something about songs from playing them live. I suppose what I learnt was that what seemed like the more fragile songs from the albums were the ones that had the most impact when we played them, particularly in these amazing places. That's something you're constantly learning when you're dealing with what's effectively quiet and spacious music, finding where the power is - I learnt a lot about how powerful an unaccompanied voice could be. That's always worth remembering.
What was the thought behind the opening piece of music?
The Pie Jesu from Faure's Requiem is a lovely piece - the Requiem is one of my favourite pieces of music. I had actually thought it might be really cool to try and play a bit of sacred music while we were in churches, so Ben and I tried to work out how to play Pie Jesu as a cover. But it turned out to be a bit too ambitious for our already over-crammed brains.
What we decided to do instead was, because it had such a great mood, was to use it as the opening, as a song to set the mood. I had thought we'd play a few bars and walk on, but on the first night, in a lovely concert hall, it seemed so perfect a way of getting people ready for the atmosphere of the gig that we just let the whole thing play to the end. It was almost like the first song of the concert.
Did you work out the set in order to create a particular mood?
It was an interesting thing. This was really the first tour of the second album, and the first time I had two albums' worth of songs to choose between, so
there was suddenly loads of choice. So it was actually quite hard to think how best to navigate through the songs and all the different moods - I wanted something that made sense from beginning to end. We played around with it over the course of the tour, but it ended up the best way.
I wanted it to start out with a sense of expectation, and an open sort of mood, and then get serious, and try to build up to some kind of a climax, emotionally, and then have some release at the end and leave everyone kind of ...spent.
A lot of people have remarked that it was funnier than they thought it was going to be. Do you intend to introduce an element of humour?
I can't seem to help it. There's something basically a bit funny about playing live, particularly with just the two of us, and so many people watching... it just strikes me as funny. My nature is, I suppose, to want to have people at their ease. And if people have relaxed a bit then they're actually more open to go with you and get more involved in sharing the emotional aspect of the music.
The gigs started quite seriously, the setup was quite atmospheric, then you'd start to engage with the audience - and more often than not that would get a bit stupid - and then it would get serious again. It seemed to work, like they were more inclined to follow us down towards the emotional climax of the show if they'd already had a bit of a laugh. I they'd seen that we weren't just a self-important pair of cunts.
Speaking of which, do you find it easy to work with your brother?
It's a bit like asking my right hand if he finds it easy working with my right hand. It's a very natural thing, we've done a lot of music stuff together since we were kids, so it's the easiest thing there is, actually, to work with him. We get a lot done quickly. Too quickly, sometimes. I also just trust him. He took on a lot of responsibility in this show. I can't think of anyone else I've worked with who I would have felt confident enough to have such a responsibility for making the show work - there's only two of us, after all - and Ben was probably more than half of it, really.
It was your guitar-playing debut on stage. How was that?
It's always good to do new things, especially stuff that frightens you. It was great. I don't really play the guitar at all very well, so it was kind of a stupid
thing to try. But it worked OK in rehearsals, and it was great during the gigs to know there was this bit where I had to get up from the safety of the piano, and actually stand up and perform, which I haven't done for years. It was good. And you get to play the guitar which is, of course, pure rock. As a limp-wristed pianist you don't get to feel that Rock adrenaline rush too often. I savoured that.
Your wife and co-writer, Kim Oliver joined you for a song in London.
The other thing that suddenly seemed like a good idea when we were thinking about the tour was that we could have some songs with some other people singing. Kim was coming to see the London show, so I asked if she wouldn't mind singing on Another little hole, because it's almost a duet between the two of us on the album. It was great to be on the stage with Ben and her, because the three of us have become the team that is making all this music, so it was only right to have all three of us on stage.
That song was definitely a highlight. Why do you think it worked so well?
It's a song that people obviously responded to on the album, and it's one of my favourites. It's actually a very sad song, and very simple, but there's something strong in it, I think. That seemed to be the moment that people seemed to invest something of themselves into the show. It went deep.
What made you decide on the songs you covered?
Again, it was 'what other things can we do with two of us that we wouldn't normally do?' I chose the Beach Boys song, Don't talk (put your head on my
shoulder) from Pet Sounds just because it's a lovely song - an incredible song, and one of my favourite ones. I don't think I've ever heard anyone perform it, apart from Brian Wilson, and I've always been intrigued as to how that song actually worked, how the music worked, so I wanted to find out. I thought it would be interesting because, as with all the songs on Pet Sounds, it's very arranged and dense, and there are loads of instruments on it, so to bring it back to just piano, electric guitar and voice shows the strength of that song and, for me, made it more emotional. It was complicated, though. Easy to forget where you're going.
The other cover we did was Overs from a Simon and Garfunkel album, and that was Ben's suggestion. It's a bitter song, but it seemed like a great way, like a little interlude, to go into Another little hole. And it was great to have just Ben on the acoustic guitar and me at the other side of the stage, singing it standing up, like a bitter and twisted crooner. I can't imagine we'd ever do that song in any other context, so it was an opportunity not to be missed.
How was it for you to play in this way to such large groups of people?
I was surprised when I realised that the tour was going to be bigger venues than I had thought. I was expecting them to be all half the size that they were - these were bigger venues than the ones we'd been playing with the full band. So when I pictured the tour, it was all on a much smaller scale. But I'm really glad it worked out the way it did, because it showed that the songs, and this way of presenting them was actually really strong.
Something about that number of people having all their attention on just a few tiny elements made it more intense. Made it more frightening for us. It really felt like we were walking a tightrope throughout, but it was also exciting because when you got to the end safely it felt like a real acheivement.
It was a great bill. Did you enjoy working with Duke Special and Bic Runga?
It was a really great line-up. I put more thought into the way the whole evening would be this time, I wanted the other two artists to be really good, and also make sense as a package for people to come and sit through the whole thing. Duke and Bic were both excellent, and I think really contributed to the whole evening, to make it something really memorable.
And you ended up guesting on each others' sets
I suppose it was inevitable. Because it was just me and Ben, and the Duke was travelling on the bus with us, and Bic was on her own, we could just hang out, and we got on well. It would have been odd if we hadn't started to crop up on stage with one another. All of us really love The Last Waltz, the film of the last concert by the Band, and that's the ultimate all-star gig. We wanted to have a miniature version, so later in the tour we introduced one of my songs that wasn't on the album [Baby Goodbye] which seemed to suit a rousing celebrity sing-along for the end of the gig.
Tell me about the little tree
How do you feel about Still Life now, a few months after you finished it?
I still really like it. It's been great to play some of those songs live - as with the first album's songs I'm getting to know them in a different way. It's great to see the album crop up all over the place, with more and more people getting hold of it, which is exciting. And of course there is a new version of it, which is also exciting...
What do you make of those adverts?
What adverts?
The adverts for your new album on the TV
They're very funny. I'm not sure that they're supposed to be as funny as they are to me. I like the idea that they're not like normal "the brand new album out now!" things. It's good to see the label trying to do something different. There is a risk that people will be rushing to the nearest cosmetics counter and begging for the fantastic new fragrance called Aqualung. I think most people realise it's something to do with music. I hope so, anyway.
Your new single is a remix of Easier to lie. What's the difference?
The new version is slightly shinier and more radio-y. The original version was really good - it's got a sort of elegance to it. It's quite restrained, and I think people thought that the song could have more instant impact, so we went to Spike Stent, who is a name that I've known for years, and I thought it would be cool to work with him. He's got a great reputation as a mixer and producer, and he was good. It was really interesting to see how he worked, and to figure out a way to make Easier to lie ... easier to like.
What's next for you this year?
This year is going to be touring, touring, touring. First we're going to Germany, and then we're doing another UK tour, but with more of us - five, six, seven ... ten at times ... then Texas, then Europe, then America again ... Yes, there's going to be a lot of travelling and playing our music to people elsewhere.
Are you any clearer this month about what your music is about?
Well, I've done two albums now. You can listen to two albums by any artist and get some sense of what part of the musical universe they're in, and though it's hard to judge it for yourself, it's clear that Aqualung is becoming associated with a certain type of songwriting - melodic and emotional. I've always been drawn to songs, as millions of other people have, that speak to you on an emotional level but also have a fantastic tune. That's perfect pop music, for me, and in broad terms that's what I think the point of Aqualung is. That's the type of songwriter I want to be.
Do you make a conscious effort to make that kind of music?
I'm not sitting there thinking "that's not very Aqualung" - I just write lots of songs, and I always have done. The whole point when I started this was to try and write music like I did when I was a kid, without much self-conciousness, just doing it because it was exciting. If it made you feel a thrill just from singing it at the piano, then that was good enough. If it was corny or whatever it didn't matter, it was for real. That was the way I wanted to get back into writing. It was almost a conscious effort not to make a conscious effort.
Do you think you're getting better at it?
I don't know. I don't feel like I'm getting worse at it. Since I started making Aqualung music, it felt really right. It felt like it's what I'm supposed to do. I don't think I'm getting better, but I'm getting used to it.
It's like moving into a new house - it takes a while to make it feel like home. But now it really does... I've put up a few paintings and decorated. And as for what I'll do next, maybe there'll be some kind of extension. An ensuite maybe. But this thing really does feel like home now, like a good place to continue making good stuff from.
Thankyou for your time.
None taken.
photos by Roberto Pieroni/Ben Hales
